THE NAKED FILMMAKER PART II

Beach blanket sexo in “VIVA.”

CCF: I know one of the reviewers that saw it, mentioned Russ Meyer. He wasn’t really an influence either, right?

AB: I’ve seen all the Russ Meyer movies at some point, but not before this. There are scenes in “Beyond the Valley of the Dolls” that are very similar to “VIVA.” But that’s not where I got it from. I hadn’t seen that in many years. There are so many lush lavish numbers in Hollywood throughout the history. I just think that whole style of the 60’s and the early 70’s is where I got so much of my visual inspiration. I just think I got the look very spot on, so it does really remind everyone of everything of the time. There are certain elements that just snap right into place when you see a certain dress or a certain prop. It really brings you into that time period. But one of the things I really liked about Russ Meyer was the roles he gave the women to play. Russ Meyer women were always dominating in his movies. To give you an example, the women in “Faster Pussy Cat Kill! Kill!” were the ones doing the violence on the men. So they were reversing the usual power roles between men and women. One reason he is so distinctive is he reversed male and female power structures. Women were always the stronger and more interesting characters. They took up most of the screen time and they were anything but bimbos and naked bodies. They were completely flushed out. They were almost larger than life figures with very strong desires.

CCF: While you were talking about that, I thought about Tarantino and the roles he gives women. Aren’t his movies very much in that spirit of the women as these larger than life, goddesses that he worships?

AB: Maybe it’s that way for him, but it isn’t that way for me.

CCF: Really?

AB: His movies to me don’t seem to ever have any interesting female characters.

CCF: Hmm… I think he does that all the way. Sometimes too much so. Didn’t you get that feeling from “Kill Bill”?

AB: No.

CCF: What about “Jackie Brown”?

AB: Well, I didn’t see “Jackie Brown.”

CCF: Okay. Well, there you go. (LOL)

AB: He’s a filmmaker that I don’t identify so much with.

CCF: A lot of the costumes, locations, props and things like that in “VIVA,” you actually got from Playboy ads. Is that right?

AB: Yeah, I did. They’re amazing. I didn’t remember how amazing Playboy was from that time. I started looking at Playboys from the early 70’s and they were really well designed. There were amazing colors, layouts and compositions. They were really trying to depict a lifestyle for a male swinger. It was so intact with all the elements of what a swinger’s lifestyle is like. I was really fascinated by that. I thought it was really exciting. I started trying to recreate that adult swinger’s atmosphere. I was really almost horrified by it because it is such a strong atmosphere. I wasn’t horrified by the nudity, but how the nudity was framed in this weird world of manly objects. It’s so strong. I think some people watching my movie might have that same reaction of horror that I had when I was looking at that stuff. It’s just how the sexuality is framed in this world of shag carpeting, cigarette smoke, ugly ash trays, side parted hair-sprayed man hair. (LOL) It’s this strange world that’s disappeared. It’s very strong and you can almost smell it – the cologne, the cigarettes and the whiskey. I felt almost that the atmosphere was stronger than the story. It does have a very strong effect on the audience looking at all that stuff. I think I successfully recreated that atmosphere, so other people can be scared by it. (LOL)

CCF: In some ways, looking back now, do you feel like you stylized the film a bit too much?

AB: No, the thing I think that is good is I think it holds up over multiple viewings. I think sometimes the first time people see a film they are a little bit overwhelmed by the visuals. If they see it a second time, they start getting interested in the story. It’s a bit alarming on the first viewing. You almost can’t grasp all the things that are going on. It’s kind of excessive, but I think that’s okay. The visuals kind of tell the story. Without the visuals it wouldn’t be the story I wanted to tell. The story is really about how all those objects make you feel I think. That’s not what it’s about, but the story can’t be understood without that kind of distance. You’re looking at a time and the values and ideas of that time. I’m a little disappointed that sometimes people single out the visuals. It makes it so they don’t have to look at the story. There is a little bit of an imbalance there, but not everyone does that.

CCF: What comes to mind for me is Larry Clark and Gregg Araki. There are these worlds that they put you in. They have these great really strong stories, but some people can’t just deal with being inside that world. I guess the way to look at that is the people that don’t understand it or don’t get it, it’s not for them.

AB: Yeah, they can watch reality TV or something.

CCF: Yeah. (LOL) They can go see “Hostel 2.” (LOL)

AB: Even the people who don’t like my movie or don’t understand it, they still like the visuals. It’s a universal thing. I guess the visuals are successful. The other parts of the movie are more or less successful depending on where they are coming from. The story is more important, but at least the visuals provides an access to people and those that don’t understand it can still have a pleasurable viewing experience.

Say cheese!

CCF: I read you were working on some kind of 60’s carnival type story for your next project.

AB: That’s one idea I am working on, but I’ve since gotten sidetracked and I’m thinking about doing a witch movie. (LOL) The one I’ve been developing though is a carnival-stripper movie set in the world of the 60’s pulp novels.

CCF: Hmm…

AB: I think it would be a pretty good movie.

CCF: Yeah, I had read about you wanting to do something with pulp novels, so that and the carnival are the same story?

AB: Yeah and maybe I could put some witchcraft in there as well and put it all together. (LOL) I’ve been reading all these pulp novels. I’ve also been reading these books lately that have to do with witches. It’s getting me pretty excited as well. So I might just get really strange and combine a couple of genres instead of just picking one.

CCF: I think definitely the atmosphere that you work with is very open to a lot of that mixing. When you go back and you look at some of the really good exploitation directors of the 60’s, they did a lot of that stuff. Especially like Herschell Gordon Lewis.

AB: Yeah, I like Herschell Gordon Lewis. I think he is a really honest director. I like the way he really mixes things up. The really low budget stuff he did is really, really weird. Like that movie “Something Weird.”

CCF: Yeah. That’s exactly what I was thinking of…

AB: There’s a witch in there.

CCF: Yeah, that one came to mind because of that.

AB: (LOL) I thought it was kind of a great witch. It’s like this terrible high school witch covered in grease paint. I thought that was fabulous. I enjoyed it because it was so obvious that it’s a young girl, dressed up like an old woman. There’s just something really great about that. It almost goes back to performance art and something kind of subversive. Although I’m trying to be slicker; I don’t want to be the laughing stock or anything. But I enjoy that kind of hand made esthetic. My early shorts were kind of that esthetic, but I’ve been trying to become more professional now, which I think was achieved with “VIVA.”

CCF: It seems like there is this 60’s and 70’s exploitation indie revival. There’s the mainstream version with “Grindhouse,” but there’s a lot of these smaller movies being made like “Pervert!,” which was a take off of the Russ Meyer stuff…

AB: Uh-huh. I did see “Pervert!”

CCF: “Stomp! Shout! Scream!” was another one. What is it about that time period or these movies that keeps drawing people back to that? What is it for you?

AB: I think I’m a little bit different in orientation from some of those other people. I personally just think old films are better. I like the formal plot construction, I enjoy the colors, cinematography, the soundtracks, the elevated performances, the makeup and you know, everything about classic movies appeals to me. That is the basis for my fantasy life in these movies. Before this I did a short that was based in the 1890’s and I did another that was based in the 30’s. The sexploitation stuff was a laden interest. I didn’t come to that till later. But I do remember as a child, seeing some of the stuff and being really stressed over it. So for me in making this movie, it’s kind of political. It’s not that I wanted to copy other filmmakers or be nostalgic. I was more interested in how you never see perverted female sexuality on the screen. But then I started realizing that you did sometimes see it in those sexploitation movies. What I found interesting is that female sexuality even existed in those movies. It doesn’t exist now and didn’t exist before that period. All my movies I guess have been about trying to talk about female sexuality. So I think that 60’s and 70’s time is a really great time to go into. I think I’m coming from an opposite place than the men who are going back to the exploitation genre. I don’t think I knew how different my point of view was until recently when I put my movie out there and realized it’s not really the same audience.

CCF: Well, that’s the thing – you said how yours are coming from a different place, when you look at the whole history of movies, there haven’t been that many female directors and secondly, looking at exploitation, you have even less. I don’t really think Doris Wishman exactly counts because her films weren’t really from the female point of view. That’s one thing that seems like it would really help you stand out from all the movies with that mindset.

AB: I thought that would be the case. But so far I’ve found disappointingly that there isn’t enough interest in that difference.

CCF: Hmmm…

AB: In fact, I think when people misunderstand the movie, it’s almost because of that difference. Sometimes that difference is viewed as a mistake. That’s some of the reaction I’ve been getting.

CCF: As far as being a female director, have you found yourself not being taken seriously?

AB: I had some of that on the set. It was kind of hard on the set sometimes. I did get people’s respect after awhile, but sometimes it was difficult. A movie set can be a very male-oriented place. The guys are used to working with other guys and having a guy director. Their not used to taking orders from a woman. That could get a little tense sometimes. I did have some problems, especially since they were real confused because I was always wondering around in costume and undressed a lot.

CCF: Speaking of the nudity, I read something that stated 30 seconds into the film, we see boobs, is that right? How much nudity and sex is in the movie and is it sort a distraction from the story?

AB: Not really. None of the nudity is gratuitous. It’s all part of the story. The reason you see breasts right away is because it’s part of the credit sequence. It’s part of the credit sequence because my character Barbi is taking a bath.

CCF: (LOL)

AB: And flipping through a woman’s sex magazine.

CCF: (LOL) You say none of its gratuities and she’s taking a bath? (LOL)

AB: Yeah. You know, it’s a natural thing for her to do. It’s in a sequence when she’s getting ready to go out.

CCF: (LOL)

AB: She’s taking a bath, putting on a negligee, putting on lipstick, putting on mascara and she’s getting into her convertible to drive to her friend’s house. That’s the credit sequence. This bath scene reoccurs several times in the movie.

CCF: (LOL)

AB: She’s a bored housewife. She doesn’t have real action in her life. Right away in the movie there is this reversal because it’s the woman looking at the images of sex in the magazine. Now this is interesting and shows the difference between the male and female viewer. To a male viewer, they’re looking at Barbi’s breasts. The female viewer is looking at what Barbi is looking at. The female viewer identifies with her as being a bored housewife without a husband there to play with her. The male viewer is looking at her breasts. The movie is getting split that way. But it’s not gratuitous. We could have shot it so the breasts don’t show, but I’m also trying to make a sexploitation movie. It’s funny because I had to ask people on the set when we were shooting that scene. I looked at the director of photography and said, “Okay, I can hold the magazine like this or like this. This way we see the breast, that way we don’t. What do you think we should do?” He said, “Are you asking me breast or no breast?” I said, “Yeah.” He goes, “Breast!”

CCF: (LOL)

AB: I said, “Okay.” So I was trying to include the male viewer during shooting. I would ask people, “Is this what you want to see here or not? Is this good?” (LOL) So it’s for everybody I think – the male and the female. But it’s not gratuitous.

CCF: And as far as nudity – are we talking topless, fully nude or what?

AB: I usually get topless in the movie. There is one major sex scene in the movie and even though I am fully nude, he is covering me. It was shot very artsy. The main fully nude shot is in the mirror because he’s on top of me. Even his bottom is obscured by beams on the ceiling. It’s really artsy. So even though I am fully nude, you don’t see it. Other people though, I have a nudist colony scene and there are people male and female just walking around. There’s a shower scene with people coming in and out of the shower. There are a lot of people that are fully nude.

CCF: It’s weird in speaking of terms of filmmakers, I don’t think there are too many directors outside of porn that would put themselves out there like that. Just thinking of Spike Lee, Martin Scorsese or even Quentin Tarantino. It just seems like you are putting so much of yourself out there. How were you able to do that?

AB: It was part of the story. So I would always have to think, “Well, I might have cast another actress besides myself in this role. What would I have required them to do?” There’s a clear answer to that. I had to make that decision as the director. It was difficult, but I had some encouragement on the set. My co-star Bridget Brno, she wouldn’t take off her top because her mother is a Catholic. She was just like, “Anna, honey, come on, take off the bra now. You got to do it.” It’s really funny. I had women on the set that were saying, “You have to do it, let’s just do it, you’re beautiful, it’s fine, let’s do it.” Everybody was really nice, so that helped. It was weird because I was so uncomfortable the first time I did it, I thought I was going to die. Then I looked at the footage. I shot it two ways, so I wouldn’t have to use it if I didn’t want. I looked at it both ways and I thought, “This scene has no edge without the nudity.” The nudity is what gives it its edge and makes it into a sexploitation film. That was me in the editing room looking at my footage. That was me as the director, thinking, “How good is my footage?” And I was thinking, “Here’s the good footage. Here’s the footage that’s weird, shocking, crazy and disturbing. The nudity is the footage I need here.” After that, it wasn’t too difficult to do it. I knew it was the footage I would use. At some point you just revert to a director who will do anything to get the shot. That’s where that courage came from. It was the director superceding the actress.

CCF: Yeah, it’s very brave.

Barbi getting help from her friends.

AB: You know what’s crazy? I’m someone who’s always very covered up. I’m not that kind of girl. I’ve never been somebody who likes to show her body. But as an artist, it was easier.

CCF: I wanted to get into your thoughts in general on sex and nudity on film. Do you feel like there is this grey area where the images become harmful and filmmakers, when they are bringing their images to life, have to think about what those images do to people who see them?

AB: I’m always trying to get at what’s behind something. There are some kinds of nudity and sex that are great on the screen and even liberating. Other types of nudity and sex are degrading and sick. It always depends on the movie, the director and who’s consuming it. I usually don’t like nudity and sex in movies. Not because I don’t like nudity and sex, but because I don’t like the way they are being done in movies. I decided the way nudity and sex was done in the sexploitation movies was something I enjoyed. I think it’s because it’s about the sex and the nudity. It’s about these people’s sexual relations, their sexuality and how they turn each other on. You as a viewer have to see it because it is a part of the story. It’s about the nudity and sex. So that way it’s not gratuitous. In a movie though, that’s about a man and woman that fall and love and you see them have sex, it’s just kind of gross. I’m talking about mainstream movies. It’s not a part of the story. We don’t need to see this. It’s not important. I feel like it’s a way for the males in the audience to feel like they conquered something. I don’t identify with it. I usually feel really embarrassed by mainstream movies that have sex and nudity.

CCF: Can you give me an example real quick of anything that comes to mind?

AB: In Hollywood movies done in the last 25 years, ones that have had a sex scene in it that I’ve seen have embarrassed me. But a hardcore movie by Radley Metzger doesn’t embarrass me. Hardcore penetration, I’m not embarrassed by. That’s a weird thing to discover… about me. I’m trying to discover a female experience watching film and when my identification is being met. Most mainstream cinema is from the male point of view. There’s no place for my desire. It’s not even so much about the sex scenes that I would isolate as being degrading or embarrassing actually. It’s the entirety of the movies.

CCF: In many ways though, haven’t Hollywood movies gotten away from sex and nudity? Or maybe I just don’t see that many mainstream films.

AB: I don’t either so I don’t really know. I guess it’s some of those memories that I have from years ago. I’m probably thinking of movies from the 80’s. I’m probably thinking of like, “Working Girl.” Although that didn’t really have a sex scene in it. They cut away.

CCF: I think “Showgirls” really kind of ruined sex and nudity in mainstream movies. I think they really shied away after that movie.

AB: Yeah, that was the turning point for sure with people not accepting sex in movies.

Anna Biller and a number of her costumes as Barbi.

CCF: I’ve read that you’ve had instances where people assumed since you played the character of Barbi, that you are that way in real life?

AB: I think that always happens to actresses. The only thing that makes it a little weird is I’m also the director. Sometimes I get treated like an actress instead of the director. I just think the character goes into their imagination and they can’t help it. But that’s okay.

CCF: What about something you had posted on Myspace about a guy at some screening putting his hand in your crotch?

AB: That was a crazy person, actually.

CCF: (LOL)

AB: It was somebody that has no boundaries. They were a crazy person. That stuff will happen. It happens when you are a woman anyway.

CCF: So have you dealt with many crazy people, or was this an isolated thing?

AB: It was an isolated thing. It was really strange. It was some crazy person. But I didn’t know that.

CCF: Well, hopefully, no crazy people bother you in Vegas, but there are plenty of them.

AB: (LOL)

CCF: Okay, I want to wrap this up, but I wanted to ask you about the costumes. Your character wears 34 different costumes in the film. Did you design all of them or where did they come from?

AB: I got a lot of the costumes from vintage stores and then I made a lot of the costumes. I did a lot of sewing for this movie. I also made a lot of the costumes for the other characters. I even had to make the underwear because the styles now are different. So if you want like a gold spandex bikini and you want it not to be a thong or some weird Brazilian style and you want it to be like how 70’s underwear looked, you have to make it. I was meticulous about the underwear. (LOL) It took me a long time. There’s one scene where there are three African drummers sitting, wearing loin cloths. Under their loins cloths they have these gold bikinis. They’re sitting down so you can’t see their bikinis at all.

CCF: (LOL)

AB: But I had to make them because if they were wearing underwear you would have seen it. Had they wore a thong, you would have seen the thong. You can’t really see it. The cut is so quick that you never even notice what they’re wearing, but you might notice if it was wrong.

CCF: And you would know. (LOL)

AB: And there might be somebody that would see it and say, “Oh my God, that was a Donna Karen thong that guy was wearing.”

CCF: (LOL)

AB: I was very meticulous about everything. There was a lot of stuff like that.

CCF: (LOL) You have got to be exhausted after this project. (LOL)

AB: Yeah.

CCF: Well, I’ve enjoyed talking to you and I’m really looking forward to seeing the film. Good luck with it and everything.

AB: Thank you.

CCF: Have a good rest of the day.

AB: You too.

- CCF, June 2007