EMOTIONAL EXPERTBest selling author, UCLA teacher, script doctor and screenplay writer Karl Iglesias will be making his fifth straight appearance at the Screenwriting Expo this year. For those that have attended one of his seminars, it is easy to see why he has been voted a star speaker three times at the event. The writer of “The 101 Habits of Highly Successful Screenwriters” and “Writing for Emotional Impact” simply knows what he’s talking about in a field nobody else is teaching. His specialty is evoking emotional response in readers and listeners, but he’s no one-trick pony. The former story analyst for actor/producer Edward James Olmos seems to have an unquenchable quest for screenwriting knowledge. Lucky for writers everywhere, the more he learns, the more he has to teach. Here Iglesias shares with PollyStaffle.com how he began his career as an actor and never intended to teach. He also discusses the Expo, evoking emotion, ego and M. Night Shyamalan, what services he offers to fix one of your scripts and why there are so many bad movies.
CCF: First off, I wanted to talk about finding time to write. That is always the biggest excuse everyone has. You keep a busy schedule. With all the teaching and guest speaking you do, the script consulting, the book and column writing, are you able to do some screenplay writing yourself and how do you make time for it? KI: It’s
very difficult because you are dealing with two different sides of the
brain basically. I started out as a screenwriter and I still am, but when
I started teaching I had to put my analytic cap on, which is pretty much
all the left side of the brain. It’s very difficult to do both at
the same time. So what I find is when I teach or do Expo stuff and do
script consulting I have my left side on - my analytic brain - and it
is hard for me to think of anything creative, so I put that on hold. When
I have some time aside like an hour here, an hour there, I put my screenwriting
cap on and I am able to work on my own projects. But it’s very difficult.
CCF: Besides finding the time, what’s the best way you’ve found to just force yourself to sit down and write? KI: The only thing I can think of is passion really. You are either passionate or you’re not about your projects. Luckily even though it’s been awhile since I’ve been teaching, I’m always still very passionate about my ideas and my scripts. I just can’t wait to have the free time to do it. It’s almost like the consulting and the teaching is my day job in a sense. I do that to pay the bills, but I always think of any possible time to set aside and go back to my writing. Really it is just a matter of passion. Those that have passion will always find time to write. Most of the writers I know that have day jobs either do it first thing in the morning before they go to their work or really after their work. It’s hardest to do after work because your energy is all spent. The best advice I can give is write first thing in the morning when you wake up. Even if you have to wake up an hour or two before you normally would. Make it habit to get up, get it out of the way and then you can do your day job. CCF: Now this maybe a question you’re sick of answering, but what is it that makes you qualified that people should listen to what you have to say in this field? KI: (LOL) I have a very good analytic mind. When it comes to analyzing and being able to teach techniques, that’s all analytic. When somebody always brings that up I always mention Aristotle. He analyzed plays and created the whole three act structure. Pretty much 90 percent of what is taught in screenwriting comes from Aristotle 2,000 years ago. Aristotle was not a playwright. He never wrote a play in his life. He was a philosopher and what he was good at was he analyzed what makes great plays and what made boring plays and he basically taught playwrights that. I’m pretty much doing the same thing in a sense. Not that I am not a screenwriter because I am and I’ve had a bit of success. I’ve been a finalist, I have an agent, I’ve been paid for my writing, but it’s not like I’m an a-list writer. What I am able to teach comes from the frustration of not being able to find the information out there. Basically, as a writer I’ve always wanted to find out all the techniques that I could about the craft. I’ve always tried to buy every book I could get my hands on, read screenplays and go to seminars. My teachings came out of my frustration. What I found is really the most important thing in a script, whether you are successful or not, is the emotional impact on the reader. That is what I specialize on. It’s something nobody else is teaching. What they teach is what I call the basics. The foundations like character development and structure. As a script consultant I’ve read hundreds and hundreds of scripts that were perfectly structured, but they were boring as hell. What is important is the emotional response of the reader, whether the reader is interested or bored. If their interested and entertained, you’ll get a recommendation on the script as opposed to them being bored and passing on it. So to go back to the original question, I guess it is the ability to teach something that’s not already out there. CCF: The teaching you do at UCLA, have you had any success stories with any of your students? KI: Yeah, actually recently one of students became I think it was semifinalist at the Nichols. It’s still ongoing so he may actually become a finalist. I always hear from private clients I’ve done consulting for that they’ve placed in contests or got an agent and are now able to get work. It’s always a good thing. CCF: That probably gets you real excited when you have students that do well. Do you sort of live vicariously through their success as well? KI: Yes and no. I mean I’m never going to forget I am a writer myself. The whole thing with the teaching really started with my first book - “The 101 Habits.” CCF: Yeah. KI: I never really intended to teach. I kind of wrote that book to get tips from professional writers on what made them successful. That took off in terms of teaching where that led to one thing and that led to another and so on to the point now where the teaching takes a lot of my time. But I’ll never forget that I am a writer and I’m always trying to get back to my writing. I’m always waiting for an opportunity to write. As an example this summer, I had a break from UCLA for three months so I’ve been focusing on my own work and that’s what it is really about for me. CCF: So basically your teaching started out because you wanted to learn more. KI: Exactly. I heard a writer once that said how they pick the movies they write is they look at what’s not in the theaters and what they want to see and that’s what they write. So with the first book, it was what I always wanted to have as a writer and couldn’t find on the shelves. So I wrote it. While I was working on that book one of the habits was about evoking emotion on the page. So I started talking about that more and more, which led to me teaching “Writing for Emotional Impact” that I teach at the Expo and UCLA and which led to the second book and is now the focus of my work in terms of craft. Between the two books, I’m covered. I have the process and habits of being a writer and then I have the craft. The second book was also in response to the information that wasn’t out there. We know to have a successful script we need to have impact on every single page of the script, but how do you do that? So in my teaching I present techniques that show how to do that in elements of the script from concept, characters, theme, dialogue, specifically dialogue. There’s not a lot of information out there about dialogue. CCF: How does a writer know when they are hitting an emotional level? Because there is actually a difference between writing emotions for your characters and actually reaching your reader. KI: Right. That’s actually a good question because the difference I want emphasize is I’m not teaching how to write emotions for your characters. What I’m teaching is the emotion of the reader. For example, if you go see a movie, you will tell me whether it was great or not on how you felt about it, not how the characters felt. Meaning if you were entertained, if you went to a horror film and you were scared... CCF: Right. KI: That’s the emotion of the audience. That’s your emotions. What you have to learn as a horror writer is how to create fear on the page for the reader, not for the characters. The emotions from the characters come from what you create on the page, but the techniques you use like suspense, tension, anticipation, curiosity, mystery, all these emotions are visceral emotions that you want the reader to feel when they read your script. If they feel those emotions, they’re going to recommend your script to their boss. So what I focus on are these techniques that help create the emotional response in the reader. It’s what I call the visceral emotions. So I teach how to create anticipation, how to create curiosity, how to create surprise, how to create suspense and how to empathizes with your characters. CCF: Who are some screenplay writers out there now having movies produced that do these things well? KI: Oh, wow, there’s a lot of them. The top writers right now, Terry Rossio and Ted Elliott, who wrote “Pirates of the Carribean.” … Steven Zaillain, who is coming up with “All the Kings Men.” … Paul Haggis, obviously. He had two back-to-back best pictures, so I guess he is actually considered the top writer right now… David Mamet in terms of dialogue… I always use Shane Black as an example in how to write great scripts in terms of description and narrative. You know actually making the reading of the script very entertaining? He’s really good at that… And certainly all the writers in my “101 Habits” book – Akiva Goldsman, Ron Bass, Eric Roth, Nicoalas Kazan and the list goes on and on. CCF: You mentioned Shane Black and how he makes it interesting for his readers. Is that something that helps with the emotional response? KI: Absolutely. One of the things I stress is when you are writing a script, don’t think about anything else but the reader. In terms of a script, when you open the page, all you have at your disposal is narrative, which is your description or the scene and dialogue. That’s it. So obviously the description is really key. You certainly can create a very impactful dynamic narrative, which Shane Black does very well. Or just be boring on the page. Certainly if you have every other element in there like you have great dialogue, a great story and a great concept, but your narrative is very simple, like you say “He enters the room” as example, it’s not going to be bad for you. But I’m just saying why not hedge your bets and make sure every single element of the script is great. In terms of description, I think Shane Black is the best and I use many examples from his scripts. It’s really a lot of fun to read his work on the page as opposed to watching the movie. CCF: And when you are talking about someone that has never sold before, they even have to do more than, say a William Goldman or somebody like that, to get someone’s attention. KI: Well, when you think about William Goldman, how do you think he got attention when he first started? He got attention by writing a great script like “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid,” which is also very entertaining. As a matter of fact Shane Black said he learned from William Goldman. CCF: Yeah, Goldman is one of those you always hear stories about like he’ll really simplify something instead of going into this really long elaborate description of say a bar. He’ll just say like “INT. - BAR” and his description is “shitty” something like that. KI: Right, right, right. Something that is very evocative. Yeah. Screenwriting is like visual poetry. You have to say the most with the least amount of words. If you can chose your words wisely and adjectives that say a lot - sensory adjectives. One word is better than three or four. CCF: You’re teaching ten or so sessions at Expo. What are some of the things you’ll be covering? KI: Well, when I first started at Expo 1 I had two seminars. One of which was mastering the habits of successful writers. It was based on the first book. I talk about the ten essential habits of successful screenwriters, which is a good overview of not only writing but an overview of Hollywood and how to deal with the business part of it. I still teach that seminar and then I have one about pitching, which focuses on how to pitch to engage the listener. It’s some of the same techniques used to engage the reader, but this is more about verbal communication. Then I pretty much have my whole class I teach at UCLA. The UCLA class is ten weeks and every week is a different chapter. So basically I have a seminar for each chapter. The only one I’m not teaching is theme, but I have concept, character, story, scenes, description and subtext. CCF: Are there any ones that stand out as this is a definite seminar to attend or is it the kind of thing where you need the whole package? KI: Well, in terms of incentive what I always tell students, and I really shouldn’t because I’m sure UCLA doesn’t like me talking about it, but the UCLA class is $500. If you take every single class on the emotional impact at the Expo, they charge $4 a class. That’s eight classes at $4 a piece, so eight times four is $32. For $32 you get the whole $500 class. (LOL) That’s a deal right there. Usually when I say that in the first seminar I have a whole bunch of students who follow me the whole weekend from class to class. In terms of which one is the most important, they all are important, but the most popular ones are dialogue. They are the most interesting and provide the most techniques that are useful and worth your four dollars. Story has a lot of good techniques as well and character is a long class. I would say if you are just a beginning writer or you are still writing your script, don’t bother with pitching and if you have my “101 Habits” you don’t need the “Mastering the Habits” course. But everything else, I would say, is pretty good. CCF: You really do cover that much over the weekend? KI: Yeah. It’s almost like the whole book in a sense. The book came from the seminars. The only difference between the book and the seminars is I expand on some things, I’ll answer questions and there will probably be some new examples of stuff to keep it fresh. I always tell people if they don’t want to frantically take down notes doing the class, just buy the book and you will get everything there, so you can just enjoy the presentation and have the book as a compliment to it. CCF: What’s your opinion on the Expo and events like this? Can they really help and can they help a beginner that is just starting out? KI: Oh yeah. Absolutely. I’ve always been leery of seminars because they were so expensive and most of the stuff that was always taught was beginning stuff like basic stuff you can get in a book. But when I first went to the Expo, I was dumbfounded by the size of it. In terms of the size and scope of the event it’s pretty inexpensive. Even if you don’t want to learn anything. I would go just to be among other writers from all over the world. Certainly every year they have more and more big time writers that share their expertise like William Goldman and Oliver Stone this year. CCF: That’s one of the things that always surprises me is the quality of some the speakers they get and not just that they are there one year, but they’re back like almost every year. Like you for an example. KI: Yeah, yeah. (LOL) CCF: That’s what amazes me. KI: Right, right. That’s kind of a testament to what a great conference it is. CCF: With emotional impact being such an important role in getting a screenplay sold, why do so many bad movies get made? KI: (LOL) Basically the reality is, for a script to sell in the beginning it has to be pretty good. It takes about at a minimum seven readers to have agreed to buy it. You know, a reader reads it, then the boss has to read it, the executive has to read it over the weekend, they all have to agree on it in a conference room on Monday morning. It has to be good. I’d say 99 percent of scripts that are sold are pretty good. Once it gets into development, that’s when it starts to get problematic. Development execs have to justify their job in a sense and they try to basically fix something that doesn’t need to be fixed most of the time. Other times they may buy a script because of an idea and it would need to be rewritten. Then what happens is you have a writer, then another writer, soon you’ve got 12 writers on it and there are too many cooks in the kitchen. That’s in development only. Now once you start getting people attached, a director and a actor, it gets rewritten again because the actor wants to put in his own lines and the director wants to change things. So what happens is so much money has been spent trying to fix that script, eventually they say, “Well, let’s just shoot it.” They’ve already presold it to foreign territories, they have contracts with writers, so it ends up being a lot cheaper to make a bad movie then to make it better. That’s the sad part of this industry. There are plenty of horror stories in my “101 Habits” about screenplays that get totally butchered and it’s kind of sad. That’s the reason a lot of writers become directors. They want to protect the script so it doesn’t get butchered. CCF: Makes sense. There’s something I read that you wrote, which I found really interesting. You said that egotism is a strong motivating factor and as writers we need to recognize that and not be ashamed it drives us. Basically, what I took from that was if you have something no matter what it is and it makes you passionate about writing, even if it is just your ego, run with it. Is that pretty much how you feel? KI: Kind of. Everybody has a reason to write. Well, you could say writing for money isn’t a good reason to write. But if money is a motivating factor then it is a good reason to write. For a lot of writers it is ego in a sense that they have this thing of, “Oh, I’m a famous writer. You know I was kind of a nerd in high school and look at me now.” That’s certainly a motivating factor. A lot of people who write and are near the top, a big factor of it is ego. But you always have to be very careful that your ego doesn’t get in the way. A great example is the M. Night Shyamalan debacle with “Lady in the Water.” Nina Jacobson at Disney was the only executive who had the guts to say to Shyamalan, “Hey, I don’t get this script.” And Shyamalan basically said, “Screw you,. I’m going to go somewhere else with it.” His ego was so big he couldn’t take any notes on it. Everybody now keeps saying, “Well, she was right. The script wasn’t as good as it could have been.” That’s when ego gets in the way. You have to be careful. Ego is a good thing, but you also have to be open minded to get feedback on your material. If more than one person tells you the same thing, you should listen to it. If different people give you feedback and one person says one thing and another says something else, its up to you as a writer to decide what you are going to do. But if two people tell you the same thing, you should pay attention to it. If certainly three people tell you the same thing, there’s a problem. You have to have a low enough ego to change it CCF: What’s the deal then when you hear about great scripts that got rejected so many times and they just kept going because they knew that had something? How as a writer do you judge your own work and know when you’ve got something and when your ego is too big? KI: I think when it comes to those projects that you hear about a lot, that brings up the subject of championing of a champion. If you were just yourself for an example and you have a script and you are the only one who believes in it where is the line? Let’s say you enter every single contest and it doesn’t make it past the first round. Well, you can tell yourself, “They don’t know anything and I believe in the script.” But if every single contest rejects it, that’s something to think about. When it comes to a script that somebody champions, meaning there is somebody else who believes in it. In this case an agent, a producer, an actor, those are the projects that eventually make it. As a writer, if it was turned down every where, it would be very hard to be passionate about it. Writers are insecure about their projects. If at least one other person tells you it is good… “Forrest Gump” is a good example. It took about 10 years to make because the producer kept believing in the project… It’s really the case of trying to find someone else that believes in it besides you. That will give you confidence. CCF: As far as writing in general, to be a good writer, one must be creative, but can someone be taught how to be creative? KI: Yes and no. My class on concept is kind of about all of that and undertsatning what a concept means in Hollywood. The main thing is the hook, the originality of it, the freshness of it. You have to be creative and you have to be familiar at the same time. A concept has to be uniquely familiar. The uniquely part of it is the hook. It’s completely creative and fresh. We’ve never seen it before. The familiar has to be something we have seen before because if I create something and make up a weird word and talk about it, we have no idea what the hell it is. It’s very hard to be impacted by that. It’s something original and we’ve never seen it before, but we have nothing to relate it to. So you have to be original and familiar at the same time. In terms of being able to teach it, I can teach what makes an idea impactful because I can analyze it. In terms of how to come up with these ideas, I can give you models like fish out of water, what’s the worst that could happen to a character, stuff like that or the blank from hell. But you can’t really teach it. I can teach ways to be creative, but you can’t teach it itself. That comes from who knows where. CCF: I wanted to talk your background a little. You actually started off thinking you wanted to be an actor, right? KI: Yeah. CCF: How did you end up where you are now? KI: That’s a very simple story. I came to L.A. I had my SAG card because I did a movie in Boston and... Can you hold on one second? CCF: Yeah. KI: I have another call. CCF: No problem. (SILENCE) KI: It was a long distance call on the other line. It’s a producer. He said he’ll call back in fifteen minutes, so I hope that is enough time? CCF: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you could have let me go. (LOL) KI: (LOL) Alright, so, what were we talking about? I forgot. CCF: How you... KI: Oh yeah, how I became... I came here as an actor all ready to act and everything. I went to some auditions and really what I discovered was what a crap shoot it is. At least acting for film and television. You walk into a room to audition and you think, “Oh my God, this part is great for me. I’m perfect for this part.” You walk into a room and there are 50 guys that look exactly like you. It’s like, “Okay, how do you pick a guy for that one line?” The thing that happened was I discovered the screenplay. Before that I didn’t know what a screenplay looked like. I was like, “Oh, wow.” That’s when I discovered you have complete control. There’s no control in terms of acting. When you go for an audition it’s pretty much luck. Somebody could pick you for a pilot, that pilot could become successful and then you could have a ten year career and become a star. On the other hand, you have actors who just keep failing at pilots. There’s no control what so ever. With a screenplay, you do have control. You can take as long as you want. You can learn how to do it, practice, develop your craft. It doesn’t cost anything for you to be a writer and you can create something that Hollywood wants. If it’s a good script you can be pretty successful at it. Nobody knows how long it took you to write it. Nobody knows if you are a woman or a man. Nobody knows how old you are. It’s all on the page. I thought that was very attractive and it fit a lot of my personality as far as loving research, being creative and being excited about a lot of different subjects and stories. That’s why I gravitated towards it. It was a very impactful thing. When I discovered it, I was like, “Oh my God. This is great. This is what I am going to do with the rest of my life.” CCF: From acting to teaching screenplay techniques. That’s pretty crazy… I was curious about some of the services through your website. If someone has a completed script and they want you to give it a rewrite, what does that run exactly and what will it entail? KI: The page one rewrite? That I’ve come across very rarely. That doesn’t happen nearly as often as the basic consulting when I get a script and then I give them notes and analysis on it and they go off and try to do their own thing with it. Every once in awhile you get a script that has a great idea, really a home run of an idea, but the writer is just a beginning writer. He doesn’t know how to write and the script is just terrible in execution, so what I do is basically partner with the writer. If I am excited about the script and its potential, we will become writing partners in making sure the script is great and executed perfectly. The writer then has that script and gets full credit. But depending on how the writer wants to do it, there can be just a fee for the writing services or if they just want to split the potential sale of it. CCF: So you have to read it and be like “Yeah, there’s some potential here,” before ever moving ahead with a rewrite. KI: Yeah, but there are instances where I will bring a script to a producer, like the one I just mentioned. This is a producer that I brought a script from a client that was already pretty good and I thought it would have a lot of potential, so I brought it to that producer after it was rewritten. So once in awhile you discover scripts from clients that obviously need work, but have a lot of potential and then I become sort of a finder for other producers. CCF: How often are you doing the consulting? KI: I used to do a lot more, but I have gotten so busy. It’s very time consuming. Right now basically what I offer is time consultation, meaning you pay by the hour. You can talk about anything, develop ideas, concepts, talk about your script, the potential of it. I just had a meeting where somebody just wanted to run by a whole bunch of ideas and decide which one was the one that had the most potential. Then I have the works, which is a consultation on a script that involves reading the script several times, doing line notes on it, doing an analysis on every single element of the script, so then the writer has enough material to rewrite it and make it better. Then is the page one rewrite. Those are the three things, but by far the most common are the first two. The script doctoring I have only done once. CCF: One of the projects of yours that I believe has been going on for many years now, “America Reconquered.” What was your involvement with that one and is that project finally getting off the ground? KI: It’s in what I call perpetual preproduction hell. This is a project that when I was working for Edward James Olmos as a reader was brought tom me by his president of productions. She said to me, “It has potential, but it kind of sucks right now and we don’t want Edward to read it. It’s not perfect.” She wanted me to come up with notes to make it better. So I did that and the director who wrote the project Juan-Luis Bunuel was in France. He’s the son of Luis Bunuel… He liked my take on it and came here to meet with me and hired me as the rewriter of the project. That was my first actual paid job. Then he went back with the script to France and got funding, I got paid more. Then what happened is they lost the funding. The company just folded. So basically he’s been trying to find funding for it the last four years. So it’s pretty much kind of like a waiting game. Since then I have gotten more rewriting assignments through word of mouth. Directors come to me, want something rewritten, so we do it. But those haven’t been produced yet, so I can’t put that on my credits. CCF: You mention Edward James Olmos, do you still do some of that work for him? KI: No that was a while ago. Since I started teaching I have pretty much have been doing that full time. CCF: Last question for you here. If people can just take one thing away from Screenwriting Expo 5, what is it you hope that one thing is? KI: I know this might sound kind of cliché, but I just can’t stress it hard enough. The only thing you should worry about as a writer is writing a great script. Don’t worry about anything else. Don’t worry about pitching. Don’t worry about marketing. Don’t worry about agents. Don’t worry about anything else except your craft. You really have to focus on your craft. A great script is really rare in this town. There are many scripts out there, but the really, really great ones are the minority. They are very hard to find and every one is desperate to find them. The quality of a script is all under your control. You have complete control over creating a great script, but you have to learn how to do it. That takes time and it takes practice. The only thing I would do while I am at the Expo is learn how to write better. Forget all the classes on marketing and pitching. Just take the classes on making your craft better. CCF: Ok. Well, I appreciate you talking with me. KI: No problem at all. CCF: And get back to your phone call with the producer. KI: (LOL) Sure. Hopefully, he’ll call back. CCF: (LOL) KI: And hopefully I’ll run into you at the Expo. Make sure you introduce yourself. CCF: Yeah, I will. KI: Alright. Thanks Chad. CCF: Thanks. - CCF, September 2006
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